1
00:00:22,630 --> 00:00:09,089
welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

2
00:00:28,220 --> 00:00:25,280
hello and welcome to the skeptic zone

3
00:00:32,450 --> 00:00:28,230
episode number 253 for the 25th of

4
00:00:35,420 --> 00:00:32,460
august 2013 Richard Saunders here with

5
00:00:36,890 --> 00:00:35,430
you from Sydney Australia and that

6
00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:36,900
little rattle were you heard in the

7
00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:40,010
background was Fred the cat hello Fred

8
00:00:45,619 --> 00:00:42,930
coming up on this week's show we speak

9
00:00:47,810 --> 00:00:45,629
to Julie ladder The Skeptical vet now we

10
00:00:49,340 --> 00:00:47,820
spoke to Julie a couple of years ago

11
00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:49,350
when she was living on the island of San

12
00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:52,050
kits studying to be a vet well she's

13
00:00:55,520 --> 00:00:54,210
almost there she's almost there and

14
00:00:58,460 --> 00:00:55,530
she's going to fill us in on her

15
00:01:01,400 --> 00:00:58,470
progress over the last few years has she

16
00:01:02,810 --> 00:01:01,410
encountered any whooo whooo as she

17
00:01:06,080 --> 00:01:02,820
encountered any mystical or magical

18
00:01:08,749 --> 00:01:06,090
thinking in her at training to be a vet

19
00:01:10,580 --> 00:01:08,759
find out at the top of the show after

20
00:01:13,999 --> 00:01:10,590
that it's a week in science from the

21
00:01:17,180 --> 00:01:14,009
Royal Institution of Australia and dr.

22
00:01:18,620 --> 00:01:17,190
Paul Willis week in science I wonder

23
00:01:21,350 --> 00:01:18,630
what's been happening this week in

24
00:01:23,180 --> 00:01:21,360
science and after that Maynard spooky

25
00:01:26,750 --> 00:01:23,190
action with a final of his three part

26
00:01:29,750 --> 00:01:26,760
series interviewing malo Cassetti who

27
00:01:32,570 --> 00:01:29,760
worked for NASA for many years mala is

28
00:01:34,910 --> 00:01:32,580
going to give his thoughts on the

29
00:01:37,820 --> 00:01:34,920
so-called moon landing hoax and boy does

30
00:01:40,910 --> 00:01:37,830
he have a zinger a real zinger as to why

31
00:01:43,460 --> 00:01:40,920
the moon landing almost certainly

32
00:01:48,170 --> 00:01:43,470
happened and to round off the show we

33
00:01:50,960 --> 00:01:48,180
can have the audio of a video tribute to

34
00:01:54,440 --> 00:01:50,970
dr. Eugenie Scott now dr. Scott was

35
00:01:57,289 --> 00:01:54,450
inducted into the iig the independent

36
00:02:01,880 --> 00:01:57,299
investigations groups Hall of Fame in

37
00:02:05,990 --> 00:02:01,890
Hollywood California not so long ago and

38
00:02:09,020 --> 00:02:06,000
we must think I IG and John rail for the

39
00:02:11,150 --> 00:02:09,030
use of this this audio clip at the end

40
00:02:14,539 --> 00:02:11,160
of the show you'll be hearing about

41
00:02:16,039 --> 00:02:14,549
Eugenie Scott and I've noticed I've been

42
00:02:19,490 --> 00:02:16,049
looking at the calendar and I've noticed

43
00:02:22,789 --> 00:02:19,500
that next week the skeptic zone turns

44
00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:22,799
five years old I can't believe it five

45
00:02:26,150 --> 00:02:24,570
years old five years ago the skeptic

46
00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:26,160
zone was launched at dragoncon in

47
00:02:30,650 --> 00:02:28,370
Atlanta Georgia sorry I can't be there

48
00:02:32,150 --> 00:02:30,660
this year would be fun to be there for

49
00:02:33,050 --> 00:02:32,160
the fifth anniversary of the skeptic

50
00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:33,060
zone

51
00:02:36,830 --> 00:02:35,250
and I think the only reason the skeptic

52
00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:36,840
zone has been going for so long is

53
00:02:41,150 --> 00:02:38,450
because of the very generous

54
00:02:43,220 --> 00:02:41,160
contributions by listeners just like you

55
00:02:45,170 --> 00:02:43,230
if you want to chip in for the skeptic

56
00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:45,180
zone only cost out less than a dollar a

57
00:02:52,850 --> 00:02:50,250
week head to www skeptic zone TV and you

58
00:02:55,009 --> 00:02:52,860
too can chip in to help the skeptic zone

59
00:02:57,259 --> 00:02:55,019
carry on now it's come to my attention

60
00:02:59,509 --> 00:02:57,269
that one of my favorite shows from when

61
00:03:01,250 --> 00:02:59,519
I was growing up the curiosity show and

62
00:03:03,650 --> 00:03:01,260
I'm sure many of my Australian listeners

63
00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:03,660
will remember the curiosity show you can

64
00:03:09,470 --> 00:03:06,810
now seem a lot of the curiosity show on

65
00:03:11,270 --> 00:03:09,480
YouTube in fact the curiosity show has

66
00:03:14,449 --> 00:03:11,280
its own YouTube channel go to youtube

67
00:03:16,610 --> 00:03:14,459
and then curiosity show one word and

68
00:03:20,479 --> 00:03:16,620
you'll find out more or you could look

69
00:03:22,460 --> 00:03:20,489
at the show notes for this episode the

70
00:03:25,610 --> 00:03:22,470
curiosity show what a great show that

71
00:03:27,770 --> 00:03:25,620
was and you can even buy the DVD set

72
00:03:30,710 --> 00:03:27,780
from the curiosity show I thoroughly

73
00:03:33,770 --> 00:03:30,720
recommend it and coming up soon for

74
00:03:37,340 --> 00:03:33,780
those people in victoria in melbourne

75
00:03:40,009 --> 00:03:37,350
and down on the peninsula there i'll be

76
00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:40,019
speaking at the maury alec sporting club

77
00:03:49,009 --> 00:03:45,170
on tuesday the third of sep tember from

78
00:03:51,979 --> 00:03:49,019
730 p.m. and if you want to attend my

79
00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:51,989
talk looking into the mind of the true

80
00:03:56,569 --> 00:03:54,450
believers are the best thing to do would

81
00:03:59,090 --> 00:03:56,579
be to go to the australian skeptics

82
00:04:01,430 --> 00:03:59,100
website skeptics calm today you and

83
00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:01,440
click the link for Richard Saunders talk

84
00:04:07,190 --> 00:04:04,410
how you have to sort of go through the

85
00:04:09,559 --> 00:04:07,200
meetup page and get your tickets that

86
00:04:11,390 --> 00:04:09,569
way it's only four dollars and I might

87
00:04:13,819 --> 00:04:11,400
even go myself I've always wanted to

88
00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:13,829
hear this this guy talk anyway more

89
00:04:19,819 --> 00:04:16,530
information at skeptics calm da to you

90
00:04:23,180 --> 00:04:19,829
and for sydney people stayed tuned stay

91
00:04:25,100 --> 00:04:23,190
tuned on the skeptics website the

92
00:04:28,610 --> 00:04:25,110
australian skeptics website for news

93
00:04:31,730 --> 00:04:28,620
about an upcoming visit from dr. pamela

94
00:04:34,340 --> 00:04:31,740
gay we hope to have details very soon a

95
00:04:37,279 --> 00:04:34,350
visit by dr. pamela gay the wonderful

96
00:04:40,490 --> 00:04:37,289
famous astronomer all right well it's

97
00:04:42,710 --> 00:04:40,500
time for me to run downstairs run

98
00:04:44,770 --> 00:04:42,720
downstairs open up the pantry and look

99
00:04:49,850 --> 00:04:44,780
for

100
00:04:52,340 --> 00:04:49,860
tuna curry oh yes tuna curry I can I can

101
00:05:11,690 --> 00:04:52,350
taste it now all I do that I hope you

102
00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:11,700
enjoy the skeptic zone and joining me

103
00:05:17,060 --> 00:05:14,130
now all the way from beautiful Illinois

104
00:05:20,870 --> 00:05:17,070
a state that I am I must visit one day

105
00:05:24,350 --> 00:05:20,880
it's our old friend the skeptical vet we

106
00:05:26,180 --> 00:05:24,360
might say Julie ladder hello Julie ah hi

107
00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:26,190
now it's been a while since we've spoken

108
00:05:30,050 --> 00:05:27,690
to on the skeptic zone and I think the

109
00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:30,060
last time I spoke to you you are in that

110
00:05:37,700 --> 00:05:34,170
romantic paradise of some kids how did

111
00:05:40,580 --> 00:05:37,710
that all go that went beautifully and I

112
00:05:43,130 --> 00:05:40,590
miss it terribly it's weird when you get

113
00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:43,140
homesick for an island that you lived on

114
00:05:48,409 --> 00:05:47,010
for two and a half years but I am well I

115
00:05:50,390 --> 00:05:48,419
remember seeing some of the photographs

116
00:05:52,610 --> 00:05:50,400
you are posting from some kids that did

117
00:05:54,380 --> 00:05:52,620
look like a tropical paradise with you

118
00:05:57,890 --> 00:05:54,390
and many a swimming pool I seem to

119
00:06:00,710 --> 00:05:57,900
remember flying Paula ocean yeah this

120
00:06:03,860 --> 00:06:00,720
Oliver now of course you went to some

121
00:06:07,100 --> 00:06:03,870
kids to do to follow your dream I guess

122
00:06:10,100 --> 00:06:07,110
it was which is to become a vet and I

123
00:06:12,020 --> 00:06:10,110
understand quite a lot of people do a

124
00:06:13,700 --> 00:06:12,030
similar sort of thing some kids is quite

125
00:06:15,290 --> 00:06:13,710
famous for its veterinary students I

126
00:06:18,140 --> 00:06:15,300
understand yeah wrath students are

127
00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:18,150
really well known we particularly tend

128
00:06:22,850 --> 00:06:20,730
to perform very well in clinics so we do

129
00:06:25,790 --> 00:06:22,860
the three years of our kind of lecture

130
00:06:28,490 --> 00:06:25,800
based didactic learning and then we do a

131
00:06:30,620 --> 00:06:28,500
year of clinical education and we're

132
00:06:35,060 --> 00:06:30,630
pretty well known for for rocking

133
00:06:36,980 --> 00:06:35,070
clinics so far that that's been my

134
00:06:41,510 --> 00:06:36,990
experience I've been doing fairly well

135
00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:41,520
and in my clinical rotations and I was

136
00:06:48,050 --> 00:06:43,650
really scared when I started that I was

137
00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:48,060
going to be kind of shown up by the by

138
00:06:53,330 --> 00:06:50,610
the Illinois students and made to look a

139
00:06:55,670 --> 00:06:53,340
fool but no I'm keeping up fairly well

140
00:06:58,680 --> 00:06:55,680
and holding up my end so

141
00:07:00,390 --> 00:06:58,690
turned out well so this is your fourth

142
00:07:02,700 --> 00:07:00,400
year now you're a fourth-year vetri

143
00:07:04,770 --> 00:07:02,710
student you must have had something

144
00:07:06,659 --> 00:07:04,780
interesting experiences to say the least

145
00:07:09,390 --> 00:07:06,669
along the way in those that in those

146
00:07:12,960 --> 00:07:09,400
years looking at all sorts of animals

147
00:07:16,650 --> 00:07:12,970
yeah one of the really cool things being

148
00:07:18,840 --> 00:07:16,660
done in st. Kitts is um Ross had a kind

149
00:07:21,150 --> 00:07:18,850
of partnership with the local farmers

150
00:07:22,950 --> 00:07:21,160
they have a breed of sheep down there

151
00:07:24,689 --> 00:07:22,960
called the Barbados black-bellied sheep

152
00:07:27,770 --> 00:07:24,699
and the hair sheet instead of a wool

153
00:07:30,060 --> 00:07:27,780
sheet so they're produced for meat and

154
00:07:32,340 --> 00:07:30,070
we had a farmer that we would partner

155
00:07:35,969 --> 00:07:32,350
with where we would take a herd of his

156
00:07:38,070 --> 00:07:35,979
sheep for a semester and we would do

157
00:07:40,260 --> 00:07:38,080
very very minor procedures on them and

158
00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:40,270
then during that time we were also

159
00:07:44,909 --> 00:07:42,970
feeding them and getting them fat and so

160
00:07:46,500 --> 00:07:44,919
it is kind of an exchange where will

161
00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:46,510
fatten up your sheep if you'll let our

162
00:07:49,500 --> 00:07:48,130
students practice on them and then you

163
00:07:52,700 --> 00:07:49,510
can have them back before they go to

164
00:07:55,700 --> 00:07:52,710
slaughter so it's actually really cool

165
00:07:59,219 --> 00:07:55,710
kind of arrangement they have going on

166
00:08:02,370 --> 00:07:59,229
see it seems like it's a mutually

167
00:08:05,570 --> 00:08:02,380
beneficial arrangement yeah it was kind

168
00:08:10,740 --> 00:08:05,580
of sad because you know we named her she

169
00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:10,750
it was Carl oh he came whenever he saw

170
00:08:14,820 --> 00:08:12,250
us we just say his name and he come

171
00:08:16,620 --> 00:08:14,830
running over to us and it was kind of

172
00:08:22,110 --> 00:08:16,630
like having a little dog that you know

173
00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:22,120
is gonna become mutton nobody well to be

174
00:08:26,550 --> 00:08:23,770
indelicate yeah you're absolutely right

175
00:08:29,879 --> 00:08:26,560
i guess that's uh that's what was coming

176
00:08:32,219 --> 00:08:29,889
that was gonna be happening now what

177
00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:32,229
about other animals let's think about

178
00:08:36,149 --> 00:08:34,330
the more the more common animals you

179
00:08:38,579 --> 00:08:36,159
dissociate with a vet in a city for

180
00:08:40,980 --> 00:08:38,589
example cats and dogs and rabbits and

181
00:08:42,180 --> 00:08:40,990
budgies and parrots and all that sort of

182
00:08:46,199 --> 00:08:42,190
thing how do you get on with those

183
00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:46,209
animals I I get along with them very

184
00:08:52,079 --> 00:08:48,730
very well I have three cats of my own

185
00:08:54,540 --> 00:08:52,089
and I grew up with dogs I love exotics I

186
00:08:57,240 --> 00:08:54,550
have a leopard gecko I used to own rat i

187
00:09:00,750 --> 00:08:57,250
fostered for an exotic rescue for seven

188
00:09:03,900 --> 00:09:00,760
years so I've had every kind of lizard

189
00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:03,910
snake creepy crawly thing through my

190
00:09:07,860 --> 00:09:05,770
house that you can think of except for

191
00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:07,870
spiders because my husband would never

192
00:09:12,510 --> 00:09:10,930
come down off the furniture and I get

193
00:09:14,340 --> 00:09:12,520
along with pretty much everything that's

194
00:09:18,480 --> 00:09:14,350
that well I guess you have to if you

195
00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:18,490
really do want to be a vet you wouldn't

196
00:09:21,450 --> 00:09:20,170
want to have a phobia against animals

197
00:09:23,940 --> 00:09:21,460
that's for sure well there are some

198
00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:23,950
people who really don't like certain

199
00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:26,050
species and they have that option that

200
00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:27,490
they never have to practice on them

201
00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:29,290
after vespoli you do have to kind of

202
00:09:31,769 --> 00:09:30,730
have to be a jack of all trades while

203
00:09:35,910 --> 00:09:31,779
you're into that school and do

204
00:09:37,860 --> 00:09:35,920
everything but after that's cool you can

205
00:09:39,630 --> 00:09:37,870
go I'm only going to do cats and there

206
00:09:41,490 --> 00:09:39,640
are people who do feel I'd only practice

207
00:09:43,829 --> 00:09:41,500
or equine only practice and all they see

208
00:09:46,650 --> 00:09:43,839
is horses so you have that option once

209
00:09:48,390 --> 00:09:46,660
you graduate I'm glad to hear it I think

210
00:09:50,790 --> 00:09:48,400
I'd have to specialize on [\h__\h] gets

211
00:09:53,970 --> 00:09:50,800
myself I'm quite attached to the ones to

212
00:09:57,840 --> 00:09:53,980
run around this house yeah that's a

213
00:09:59,340 --> 00:09:57,850
little limited for me what's your

214
00:10:02,340 --> 00:09:59,350
favorite animal then of all the animals

215
00:10:05,010 --> 00:10:02,350
that you've dealt with examined looked

216
00:10:06,540 --> 00:10:05,020
at pushed prodded and probed do you have

217
00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:06,550
one that you particularly like or you

218
00:10:11,280 --> 00:10:09,010
particularly like to treat I love rats

219
00:10:14,010 --> 00:10:11,290
right so in some they're like little

220
00:10:15,930 --> 00:10:14,020
dogs I just love them I can't have them

221
00:10:19,079 --> 00:10:15,940
unfortunately my husband's really really

222
00:10:21,890 --> 00:10:19,089
really allergic oh yeah we found that

223
00:10:25,050 --> 00:10:21,900
out when he moved in with me engaged

224
00:10:27,990 --> 00:10:25,060
with a HEPA filter and an extra bedroom

225
00:10:32,850 --> 00:10:28,000
we managed to make it work for until

226
00:10:38,100 --> 00:10:32,860
they they went on their way but I love

227
00:10:39,900 --> 00:10:38,110
rats i really like lizards I have a

228
00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:39,910
leopard gecko tattooed on my foot so I'd

229
00:10:44,519 --> 00:10:42,250
better like them and cats I'm gonna have

230
00:10:47,430 --> 00:10:44,529
three cats so obviously I really like

231
00:10:49,560 --> 00:10:47,440
that and has it been um much what you

232
00:10:52,019 --> 00:10:49,570
would expect when you started on this

233
00:10:53,790 --> 00:10:52,029
amazing adventure to become a vet or has

234
00:10:55,350 --> 00:10:53,800
the study being more arduous oh it's

235
00:10:58,620 --> 00:10:55,360
been much more difficult than you would

236
00:11:02,130 --> 00:10:58,630
have imagined oh my goodness I never

237
00:11:06,030 --> 00:11:02,140
anticipated my wildest dreams that it

238
00:11:08,730 --> 00:11:06,040
would be this difficult especially the

239
00:11:11,310 --> 00:11:08,740
subjects like virology where you know

240
00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:11,320
human virology you're studying human

241
00:11:17,940 --> 00:11:14,890
virology it's one species and there's

242
00:11:20,290 --> 00:11:17,950
obviously a number of viruses that we

243
00:11:23,290 --> 00:11:20,300
can become infected with and good

244
00:11:25,750 --> 00:11:23,300
sick but when you compare that to all

245
00:11:27,670 --> 00:11:25,760
the viruses that a dog can get a cat can

246
00:11:30,910 --> 00:11:27,680
get a horse can get a cow can get so

247
00:11:34,210 --> 00:11:30,920
just across the board it's so intense

248
00:11:35,710 --> 00:11:34,220
and it's so difficult I don't know how

249
00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:35,720
to describe it other than is very

250
00:11:41,980 --> 00:11:39,890
arduous and scary Wow would it be easier

251
00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:41,990
just to become a human doctor I don't

252
00:11:46,750 --> 00:11:43,730
want to say that I won't say that you

253
00:11:49,570 --> 00:11:46,760
know we could have this this joking kind

254
00:11:51,310 --> 00:11:49,580
of uh we did we give each other a hard

255
00:11:52,690 --> 00:11:51,320
time MDS and deviouz we kind of give

256
00:11:54,670 --> 00:11:52,700
each other a hard time when we're in

257
00:11:55,750 --> 00:11:54,680
school at least I don't know about once

258
00:11:58,300 --> 00:11:55,760
you're out in the world you're actually

259
00:12:00,070 --> 00:11:58,310
practicing but you know there's this

260
00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:00,080
thing that we like to say in that bed

261
00:12:07,990 --> 00:12:02,930
where reveal we say real doctors treat

262
00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:08,000
more than one species so yeah this is

263
00:12:11,560 --> 00:12:09,770
good natured it's all in good fun but

264
00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:11,570
yeah we do kind of like to give them

265
00:12:16,330 --> 00:12:14,210
erything every once in a while now what

266
00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:16,340
I and we might have discussed this a

267
00:12:20,950 --> 00:12:18,650
couple of years ago but and of course

268
00:12:22,900 --> 00:12:20,960
you had a couple more years since then

269
00:12:26,470 --> 00:12:22,910
both instant kitchen where you are at

270
00:12:28,180 --> 00:12:26,480
the moment what whoo for lack of a

271
00:12:31,540 --> 00:12:28,190
better word have you come across in your

272
00:12:37,630 --> 00:12:31,550
work or superstitions or misconceptions

273
00:12:39,490 --> 00:12:37,640
oh so I know last time I was on the show

274
00:12:43,090 --> 00:12:39,500
we talked about applied kinesiology and

275
00:12:48,340 --> 00:12:43,100
my experiences with that so that was

276
00:12:51,880 --> 00:12:48,350
definitely new tastic but the crazy

277
00:12:57,370 --> 00:12:51,890
thing about that med is that there it's

278
00:13:00,960 --> 00:12:57,380
very accepted right and acupuncture and

279
00:13:03,190 --> 00:13:00,970
chiropractic are huge in that med and

280
00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:03,200
it's been kind of an interesting

281
00:13:08,410 --> 00:13:06,170
experience for me because if you're

282
00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:08,420
skeptical of those things and your

283
00:13:12,970 --> 00:13:10,730
critical of those things you kind of

284
00:13:19,330 --> 00:13:12,980
automatically get labeled as inflexible

285
00:13:21,340 --> 00:13:19,340
and a bit of a hard notes and I've

286
00:13:23,560 --> 00:13:21,350
always considered myself a very pleasant

287
00:13:26,740 --> 00:13:23,570
nice person but I I developed a bit of a

288
00:13:31,060 --> 00:13:26,750
reputation and I just found out recently

289
00:13:32,410 --> 00:13:31,070
so yeah we go we go to ross for two and

290
00:13:34,230 --> 00:13:32,420
a half years on the island and then we

291
00:13:36,819 --> 00:13:34,240
come here for a year

292
00:13:38,650 --> 00:13:36,829
you get paired up with people who you

293
00:13:41,680 --> 00:13:38,660
weren't necessarily like super close

294
00:13:44,530 --> 00:13:41,690
with in your class 2 and so the five of

295
00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:44,540
us came here and one of whom was someone

296
00:13:49,930 --> 00:13:46,250
who I knew but I didn't know very well

297
00:13:51,310 --> 00:13:49,940
and she told me that she never really

298
00:13:53,139 --> 00:13:51,320
got to know me while we were in st.

299
00:13:55,449 --> 00:13:53,149
Kitts even though we sort of ran in the

300
00:13:58,720 --> 00:13:55,459
same circles because she was afraid of

301
00:14:00,129 --> 00:13:58,730
me wow I can't imagine that Julie you're

302
00:14:01,900 --> 00:14:00,139
such a lovely person I'm just trying to

303
00:14:05,769 --> 00:14:01,910
imagine that I was pretty shocked too

304
00:14:09,699 --> 00:14:05,779
like I didn't think I was scary and it's

305
00:14:12,910 --> 00:14:09,709
because she's a witch she does believe

306
00:14:20,470 --> 00:14:12,920
in acupuncture and she's a reiki array

307
00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:20,480
key idea idea idea I see ya I she's a

308
00:14:26,050 --> 00:14:22,970
lovely girl and I really like her and we

309
00:14:28,689 --> 00:14:26,060
get along and we coded dinner and out to

310
00:14:31,269 --> 00:14:28,699
drinks off time and so we get along just

311
00:14:34,750 --> 00:14:31,279
fine I think she was afraid I was gonna

312
00:14:36,370 --> 00:14:34,760
bite her head off and you know if the

313
00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:36,380
professional Curtis day thing where you

314
00:14:39,310 --> 00:14:37,970
kinda have to go okay well I don't

315
00:14:41,769 --> 00:14:39,320
believe in this I'm not really going to

316
00:14:44,980 --> 00:14:41,779
budge on that I'm not going to pretend

317
00:14:48,220 --> 00:14:44,990
I'm okay with it for your comfort but

318
00:14:50,290 --> 00:14:48,230
I'm not gonna sit there and harass you

319
00:14:52,389 --> 00:14:50,300
about it either I'm not gonna change

320
00:14:53,500 --> 00:14:52,399
your mind by yelling at you I think

321
00:14:55,900 --> 00:14:53,510
that's the right attitude to have

322
00:14:58,269 --> 00:14:55,910
because you weren't but absolutely not

323
00:14:59,920 --> 00:14:58,279
but yeah Reiki I haven't heard of but

324
00:15:02,500 --> 00:14:59,930
I'm not surprised that some people out

325
00:15:05,050 --> 00:15:02,510
there using it for pets even the local

326
00:15:08,350 --> 00:15:05,060
the vet local to me just around the

327
00:15:09,910 --> 00:15:08,360
corner which my [\h__\h] cats go to there's

328
00:15:13,319 --> 00:15:09,920
a sign they're saying acupuncture

329
00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:13,329
available and I made the mistake of once

330
00:15:17,829 --> 00:15:15,890
questioning that to a vet who was there

331
00:15:20,139 --> 00:15:17,839
and yeah they didn't they didn't they

332
00:15:22,900 --> 00:15:20,149
weren't very impressed but still you

333
00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:22,910
know there's a point where I guess even

334
00:15:28,329 --> 00:15:24,970
the skeptics he just gotta let things

335
00:15:30,100 --> 00:15:28,339
slide a little bit bite your tongue well

336
00:15:35,110 --> 00:15:30,110
we did have a conversation just the

337
00:15:38,319 --> 00:15:35,120
other night actually about she is very

338
00:15:40,990 --> 00:15:38,329
much the sort of that who is going to

339
00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:41,000
offer traditional I don't want say

340
00:15:44,389 --> 00:15:42,050
traditional because then you get into

341
00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:44,399
traditional Chinese medicine

342
00:15:49,949 --> 00:15:47,410
evidence-based medicine what she's going

343
00:15:54,329 --> 00:15:49,959
to practice the best standard of care as

344
00:15:57,419 --> 00:15:54,339
far as our current scientific knowledge

345
00:16:01,559 --> 00:15:57,429
is concerned and she's also going to

346
00:16:05,189 --> 00:16:01,569
offer these other services so I couldn't

347
00:16:08,039 --> 00:16:05,199
really I do have a concern if it's a

348
00:16:10,889 --> 00:16:08,049
monetary issue money comes up a lot in

349
00:16:12,929 --> 00:16:10,899
vet med where the owners say I have X

350
00:16:14,939 --> 00:16:12,939
amount of dollars to spend or I'm tapped

351
00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:14,949
out we can't do any more this is the end

352
00:16:19,169 --> 00:16:17,410
of the road and they might reach that

353
00:16:23,519 --> 00:16:19,179
point sooner if they're spending money

354
00:16:27,539 --> 00:16:23,529
on acupuncture as well as antibiotics so

355
00:16:30,329 --> 00:16:27,549
I kind of have an issue with it but as

356
00:16:33,989 --> 00:16:30,339
long as she's willing to offer best

357
00:16:35,939 --> 00:16:33,999
practices first as a first line of

358
00:16:38,609 --> 00:16:35,949
treatment and then this is a kind of

359
00:16:41,129 --> 00:16:38,619
adjunct then I have less of a problem

360
00:16:44,009 --> 00:16:41,139
with it an interesting dilemma and I'm

361
00:16:47,279 --> 00:16:44,019
sure you're going to follow I find this

362
00:16:48,769 --> 00:16:47,289
rather throughout your career yeah and

363
00:16:51,029 --> 00:16:48,779
you gotta have to choose your battles

364
00:16:54,179 --> 00:16:51,039
yes that's a very good point you will

365
00:16:56,819 --> 00:16:54,189
have to choose your battles now I you've

366
00:16:58,619 --> 00:16:56,829
put it in my mind the image of poor

367
00:17:00,659 --> 00:16:58,629
little cat there on the examining table

368
00:17:02,460 --> 00:17:00,669
and somebody waving their hands

369
00:17:06,419 --> 00:17:02,470
channeling the Reiki energy into the

370
00:17:10,230 --> 00:17:06,429
skin to the cat oh dear and kept looking

371
00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:10,240
up going what are you doing all cats are

372
00:17:16,889 --> 00:17:15,129
skeptic by nature I think very much sir

373
00:17:19,799 --> 00:17:16,899
they're skeptical about you they're

374
00:17:22,289 --> 00:17:19,809
skeptical of their new food pretty much

375
00:17:24,419 --> 00:17:22,299
everything I think you're right now how

376
00:17:26,649 --> 00:17:24,429
long to go before you get that magic

377
00:17:29,019 --> 00:17:26,659
certificate all the room

378
00:17:32,950 --> 00:17:29,029
what if it gets out of there not very

379
00:17:35,979 --> 00:17:32,960
sure i am going to be taking my nav Lee

380
00:17:39,669 --> 00:17:35,989
Oh Lord let me see if I can remember

381
00:17:41,799 --> 00:17:39,679
north american veterinary licensing exam

382
00:17:43,749 --> 00:17:41,809
be sure that because the first i thought

383
00:17:46,509 --> 00:17:43,759
was like national american and that made

384
00:17:49,989 --> 00:17:46,519
no sense um I believe is north american

385
00:17:53,259 --> 00:17:49,999
veterinary lighting singing exam and I'm

386
00:17:56,259 --> 00:17:53,269
taking that in November so coming up

387
00:18:01,210 --> 00:17:56,269
very soon it's about 600 multiple choice

388
00:18:05,139 --> 00:18:01,220
questions a very very long exam covering

389
00:18:07,049 --> 00:18:05,149
dog cat horse cow and some of your

390
00:18:11,639 --> 00:18:07,059
exotic species like birds and reptiles

391
00:18:14,049 --> 00:18:11,649
it's the it's pretty intense it's

392
00:18:18,759 --> 00:18:14,059
pass/fail you become a doctor you don't

393
00:18:20,019 --> 00:18:18,769
and wow that's exciting but what are you

394
00:18:26,909 --> 00:18:20,029
doing talking to me you should be

395
00:18:31,599 --> 00:18:26,919
studying yeah I bought like an online

396
00:18:35,519 --> 00:18:31,609
mock exam I think that you can use I

397
00:18:38,109 --> 00:18:35,529
bought a couple of review books and just

398
00:18:40,659 --> 00:18:38,119
going to be crunch time from now until

399
00:18:42,729 --> 00:18:40,669
November well that's great you know what

400
00:18:45,580 --> 00:18:42,739
Julie I think in the future the way

401
00:18:46,930 --> 00:18:45,590
technology is going when a couple of

402
00:18:48,849 --> 00:18:46,940
years down the track i'll be able to

403
00:18:50,919 --> 00:18:48,859
have a consultation with you for my

404
00:18:53,019 --> 00:18:50,929
[\h__\h] cats or whatever animal i have all

405
00:18:54,820 --> 00:18:53,029
virtual i'll put the cat there and

406
00:18:56,259 --> 00:18:54,830
you'll see it on your virtual screen and

407
00:18:58,239 --> 00:18:56,269
you'll be able to recommend the best

408
00:19:00,700 --> 00:18:58,249
best treatment for it I've looked

409
00:19:03,039 --> 00:19:00,710
forward about it oh no the physical exam

410
00:19:06,009 --> 00:19:03,049
is key you've got to get your hands on

411
00:19:09,249 --> 00:19:06,019
the animal doesn't work that way do you

412
00:19:10,690 --> 00:19:09,259
enjoy just interacting with animals I

413
00:19:15,460 --> 00:19:10,700
think you must be the sort of person who

414
00:19:18,700 --> 00:19:15,470
would yeah it's funny because it never

415
00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:18,710
wears off you know every little girl

416
00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:20,450
wants to be a veterinarian which is it

417
00:19:24,460 --> 00:19:22,369
when she's young you should just like

418
00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:24,470
the horsies and the kitties and you know

419
00:19:29,019 --> 00:19:26,090
you kind of lose your mind and that

420
00:19:32,169 --> 00:19:29,029
never goes away you know I still to this

421
00:19:34,749 --> 00:19:32,179
day if I see a horse all school run up

422
00:19:36,249 --> 00:19:34,759
and start cutting it and I still

423
00:19:37,420 --> 00:19:36,259
devolved into like an eight-year-old

424
00:19:40,060 --> 00:19:37,430
little girl

425
00:19:42,700 --> 00:19:40,070
I'm not surprised well look Julie I'm I

426
00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:42,710
don't know whether to wish you luck or

427
00:19:48,010 --> 00:19:45,410
not in a couple of months I don't think

428
00:19:49,570 --> 00:19:48,020
you'll need it I think that I think

429
00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:49,580
you'll be a splendid vet and I look

430
00:19:53,950 --> 00:19:51,290
forward to chatting to you afterwards

431
00:19:55,900 --> 00:19:53,960
maybe and maybe this time next year and

432
00:19:59,530 --> 00:19:55,910
we can catch up and see how you're going

433
00:20:02,290 --> 00:19:59,540
yeah sure well Julie look I'm so pleased

434
00:20:04,620 --> 00:20:02,300
that you have taken up this path in life

435
00:20:07,420 --> 00:20:04,630
because I think it's wonderful that

436
00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:07,430
bright people like you follow medicine

437
00:20:12,580 --> 00:20:08,930
and veteran medicine that's just

438
00:20:14,260 --> 00:20:12,590
fantastic evidence-based and you'll be

439
00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:14,270
able to help out a lot of people and a

440
00:20:28,060 --> 00:20:16,610
lot of animals so Julie letter thank you

441
00:20:30,910 --> 00:20:28,070
very much thank you here's a message

442
00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:30,920
from our friends at 60 second science

443
00:20:35,500 --> 00:20:33,650
the wonderful outreach opportunity

444
00:20:38,170 --> 00:20:35,510
getting students and others to make

445
00:20:41,020 --> 00:20:38,180
science documentaries all in 60 seconds

446
00:20:43,780 --> 00:20:41,030
60 second science is interested in

447
00:20:45,310 --> 00:20:43,790
getting more teachers involved in places

448
00:20:49,060 --> 00:20:45,320
like Canada the United States United

449
00:20:50,590 --> 00:20:49,070
Kingdom anywhere really if you're a

450
00:20:52,660 --> 00:20:50,600
teacher and you want to become involved

451
00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:52,670
in helping to spread science on the

452
00:20:57,340 --> 00:20:55,610
internet Google 60-second science have a

453
00:21:00,550 --> 00:20:57,350
look at some of the entries and maybe

454
00:21:06,110 --> 00:21:00,560
get your school board interested in this

455
00:21:10,710 --> 00:21:08,940
welcome to a week in science from our

456
00:21:13,890 --> 00:21:10,720
iOS bringing you the science museum

457
00:21:16,590 --> 00:21:13,900
needs a no this week in science saw a

458
00:21:28,740 --> 00:21:16,600
closer look at paper pulp howling wolves

459
00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:28,750
and what's this noise can the

460
00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:31,090
twinkle-twinkle of little stars really

461
00:21:35,730 --> 00:21:33,490
tell us what they are nature this week

462
00:21:37,470 --> 00:21:35,740
reported that the flicker of stars can

463
00:21:40,290 --> 00:21:37,480
be used to measure gravity at its

464
00:21:43,020 --> 00:21:40,300
surface in turn this information can be

465
00:21:46,140 --> 00:21:43,030
used to determine how big and how old

466
00:21:49,140 --> 00:21:46,150
the star is the flickers have also been

467
00:21:58,670 --> 00:21:49,150
converted to sound so you can hear what

468
00:22:07,290 --> 00:22:05,160
why do wolves howl researchers looked at

469
00:22:09,060 --> 00:22:07,300
the social structure of wolf packs and

470
00:22:11,910 --> 00:22:09,070
measured levels of the stress hormone

471
00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:11,920
cortisol when an individual was removed

472
00:22:16,410 --> 00:22:14,170
from the pack they observed the howling

473
00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:16,420
of the Wolves left behind they found

474
00:22:20,490 --> 00:22:18,730
that wolves howl more if they have a

475
00:22:23,130 --> 00:22:20,500
strong relationship with the removed

476
00:22:25,620 --> 00:22:23,140
pack member but that it did not relate

477
00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:25,630
to their stress levels this indicates

478
00:22:30,180 --> 00:22:27,610
that howling is not a simple stress

479
00:22:32,430 --> 00:22:30,190
response but may be used more to

480
00:22:34,830 --> 00:22:32,440
communicate with the missing pack member

481
00:22:37,230 --> 00:22:34,840
you're listening to a week in science

482
00:22:41,790 --> 00:22:37,240
from our iOS are now for science

483
00:22:44,070 --> 00:22:41,800
headlines in 30 seconds a closer look at

484
00:22:46,650 --> 00:22:44,080
paper pulp reveals why it sticks

485
00:22:49,050 --> 00:22:46,660
together and how to reduce the materials

486
00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:49,060
and energy needed to produce a middle

487
00:22:53,490 --> 00:22:51,010
aged people with narrowed arteries who

488
00:22:56,070 --> 00:22:53,500
have had the flu jab have almost half

489
00:22:58,080 --> 00:22:56,080
the risk of heart attack floods due to

490
00:23:00,090 --> 00:22:58,090
climate change in coastal cities will

491
00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:00,100
cost at least one trillion dollars

492
00:23:06,690 --> 00:23:03,730
annually by 2050 and what you see is

493
00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:06,700
what you get we rely more on visual

494
00:23:12,150 --> 00:23:08,530
information when judging a musical

495
00:23:13,770 --> 00:23:12,160
performance than sound it's been a big

496
00:23:15,330 --> 00:23:13,780
week in science policy with

497
00:23:17,550 --> 00:23:15,340
announcements for investment in

498
00:23:20,910 --> 00:23:17,560
regenerative medicine and climate change

499
00:23:23,940 --> 00:23:20,920
on Tuesday night the 27th of August join

500
00:23:26,670 --> 00:23:23,950
our discussion on science policy held

501
00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:26,680
simultaneously in Adelaide and Canberra

502
00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:29,530
an available live online across the

503
00:23:34,770 --> 00:23:31,770
country check our website for details

504
00:23:42,350 --> 00:23:34,780
that's it for this a week in science

505
00:23:42,360 --> 00:23:46,120
chanson

506
00:23:51,530 --> 00:23:48,560
but gasps yours is an award-winning

507
00:23:54,410 --> 00:23:51,540
weekly science show in French hosted by

508
00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:54,420
a bunch of crazy enthusiasts we are

509
00:23:59,060 --> 00:23:56,730
convinced that the greatest ideas in

510
00:24:01,310 --> 00:23:59,070
science are quite easy to grasp as long

511
00:24:03,860 --> 00:24:01,320
as they're presented with passion using

512
00:24:06,110 --> 00:24:03,870
a vocabulary common to all curious minds

513
00:24:08,810 --> 00:24:06,120
whatever their academic background if

514
00:24:11,810 --> 00:24:08,820
any you don't understand French yet oh

515
00:24:13,700 --> 00:24:11,820
it's never too late all our stories have

516
00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:13,710
a written transcript on the website and

517
00:24:17,630 --> 00:24:15,570
people from all around the world are

518
00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:17,640
using our content to learn Malia's

519
00:24:22,970 --> 00:24:20,730
language our topics range from 0 to

520
00:24:25,490 --> 00:24:22,980
infinity from evolution to artificial

521
00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:25,500
life from electromagnetism to the

522
00:24:31,370 --> 00:24:28,170
science of introverts we just love

523
00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:31,380
mathematics science critical thinking so

524
00:24:35,870 --> 00:24:34,170
do you want to join you can subscribe to

525
00:24:38,540 --> 00:24:35,880
the podcast for free from our website

526
00:24:41,210 --> 00:24:38,550
podcast science starts f-n that's in one

527
00:24:43,940 --> 00:24:41,220
word you also find us on itunes and

528
00:24:45,590 --> 00:24:43,950
soundcloud see you soon hopefully at

529
00:24:49,740 --> 00:24:45,600
louisa korea had the other words or

530
00:24:49,750 --> 00:24:56,950
Oh

531
00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:01,670
here's Maynard spooky action at a

532
00:25:15,470 --> 00:25:10,789
mollica said he has a guy working at

533
00:25:17,149 --> 00:25:15,480
NASA in the the 50 60 70 s you all the

534
00:25:22,460 --> 00:25:17,159
photos I've seen you must have had one

535
00:25:23,899 --> 00:25:22,470
hell of a pocket protector fear pins you

536
00:25:29,299 --> 00:25:23,909
know I'd never had a pocket protector

537
00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:29,309
right I I poured them but I had a lot of

538
00:25:35,810 --> 00:25:32,730
Ruin shirts out that every every guy you

539
00:25:37,909 --> 00:25:35,820
see had a in in the Mission Control seem

540
00:25:39,619 --> 00:25:37,919
to have a huge pocket pit even bigger

541
00:25:42,379 --> 00:25:39,629
than the Revenge of the Nerds movie just

542
00:25:43,820 --> 00:25:42,389
you just keep the did pins leak really

543
00:25:45,549 --> 00:25:43,830
easily then was that the problem or

544
00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:45,559
whether using fountain pen design I

545
00:25:50,659 --> 00:25:48,210
think we were way from fountain pens but

546
00:25:55,879 --> 00:25:50,669
by that time the ballpoint pens were

547
00:25:57,529 --> 00:25:55,889
pretty much in you just run through a

548
00:25:58,820 --> 00:25:57,539
couple of the conspiracies here now you

549
00:26:00,980 --> 00:25:58,830
said your spirit spoke to some people

550
00:26:03,739 --> 00:26:00,990
from the Club of Rome did they look like

551
00:26:08,629 --> 00:26:03,749
people that run the world malo well

552
00:26:12,169 --> 00:26:08,639
actually they were circumstances was I

553
00:26:19,519 --> 00:26:12,179
got a phone call at that time uh this

554
00:26:22,190 --> 00:26:19,529
was in the own 1982 time period I was

555
00:26:25,249 --> 00:26:22,200
the project manager for trying to figure

556
00:26:29,060 --> 00:26:25,259
out how to how the Air Force could

557
00:26:32,299 --> 00:26:29,070
planned missions and fly missions from

558
00:26:34,940 --> 00:26:32,309
colorado springs in something called the

559
00:26:38,350 --> 00:26:34,950
consolidated Space Operations Center and

560
00:26:40,970 --> 00:26:38,360
my job was to take our knowledge and of

561
00:26:42,950 --> 00:26:40,980
what the systems where we have the

562
00:26:46,190 --> 00:26:42,960
Mission Control Center in Houston and

563
00:26:49,460 --> 00:26:46,200
and replicate that if we could or

564
00:26:52,129 --> 00:26:49,470
whatever and so I got a call from

565
00:26:55,039 --> 00:26:52,139
somebody high up in the organization

566
00:26:57,169 --> 00:26:55,049
said there's a few gentlemen from the

567
00:27:00,139 --> 00:26:57,179
Club of Rome that would like a briefing

568
00:27:02,749 --> 00:27:00,149
on how the Air Force is going to do this

569
00:27:04,639 --> 00:27:02,759
so i said i got briefing charts and

570
00:27:07,279 --> 00:27:04,649
everything just tell me where to go and

571
00:27:10,460 --> 00:27:07,289
i'll give him a briefing they were i

572
00:27:14,779 --> 00:27:10,470
believe four members one of them was a

573
00:27:17,990 --> 00:27:14,789
retired Air Force general the other one

574
00:27:20,510 --> 00:27:18,000
was a retired military I can't

575
00:27:22,820 --> 00:27:20,520
member which and the other two gentlemen

576
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:22,830
were bankers you know I didn't know

577
00:27:28,130 --> 00:27:26,010
really what the Club of Rome was I I

578
00:27:31,970 --> 00:27:28,140
guess in the back of my mind I just

579
00:27:35,020 --> 00:27:31,980
figured well I don't know what I figured

580
00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:35,030
at the time but I was doing my duty and

581
00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:37,290
laid down the charts they asked

582
00:27:41,530 --> 00:27:38,970
questions I think they were rather

583
00:27:45,250 --> 00:27:41,540
pleased gave him a probably about a

584
00:27:48,410 --> 00:27:45,260
one-hour comprehensive briefing they had

585
00:27:50,660 --> 00:27:48,420
questions but i think i was able to

586
00:27:53,180 --> 00:27:50,670
satisfy most of their question those

587
00:27:54,740 --> 00:27:53,190
those those there was no hidden agenda

588
00:27:56,510 --> 00:27:54,750
going on there was the they weren't

589
00:27:58,340 --> 00:27:56,520
trying to put people into space or use

590
00:28:00,680 --> 00:27:58,350
this as some sort of weapon were they I

591
00:28:03,860 --> 00:28:00,690
don't think it was for themselves i

592
00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:03,870
think they were I you know I I never

593
00:28:09,710 --> 00:28:07,050
really understood why they wanted to

594
00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:09,720
know that why they wanted to hear I was

595
00:28:14,660 --> 00:28:11,970
going to be done I suspect that there

596
00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:14,670
was a general in the group an Air Force

597
00:28:20,180 --> 00:28:17,690
general by the way it may have been

598
00:28:22,010 --> 00:28:20,190
conceived by him they were having the

599
00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:22,020
Club of Rome was meeting it out in a

600
00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:24,450
place called The Woodlands outside of

601
00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:26,730
Houston and it was you know maybe an

602
00:28:31,220 --> 00:28:28,530
hour drive from there to the space

603
00:28:32,900 --> 00:28:31,230
center so maybe he just said well I'm

604
00:28:34,490 --> 00:28:32,910
getting bored with whatever's going on I

605
00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:34,500
hear the Air Force is going to do

606
00:28:39,350 --> 00:28:37,410
something with the shuttle um why don't

607
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:39,360
we go find out maybe the four of them

608
00:28:46,490 --> 00:28:42,450
piled in the car and they set up the

609
00:28:50,270 --> 00:28:46,500
meeting I think it was maybe it a non

610
00:28:53,540 --> 00:28:50,280
sinister I think it was pretty okay kind

611
00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:53,550
of thing and what about the moon landing

612
00:28:57,170 --> 00:28:55,170
hoax you mentioned earlier that there

613
00:28:58,880 --> 00:28:57,180
was intense competition with the Soviets

614
00:29:00,950 --> 00:28:58,890
is there any chance that maybe you know

615
00:29:02,870 --> 00:29:00,960
you guys did all this work but rather

616
00:29:04,940 --> 00:29:02,880
than risk the astronauts they faked it

617
00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:04,950
somehow just to beat the Soviets that

618
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:07,410
way well let me ask you this do you

619
00:29:13,670 --> 00:29:11,850
think the Soviet Union who had had a

620
00:29:17,180 --> 00:29:13,680
great deal of capability i mean we're

621
00:29:20,060 --> 00:29:17,190
talking about a a country and

622
00:29:23,540 --> 00:29:20,070
organization that had the Manhattan

623
00:29:26,150 --> 00:29:23,550
Project secrets before anybody else did

624
00:29:29,150 --> 00:29:26,160
that's true when it infiltrated the

625
00:29:31,430 --> 00:29:29,160
program and and they they were learning

626
00:29:31,790 --> 00:29:31,440
about the manhattan project as it was

627
00:29:33,770 --> 00:29:31,800
going

628
00:29:35,900 --> 00:29:33,780
that's what to Stalin you about at the

629
00:29:40,700 --> 00:29:35,910
Potsdam Conference before anyone told

630
00:29:44,390 --> 00:29:40,710
him Truman Truman was surprised that he

631
00:29:48,140 --> 00:29:44,400
wasn't surprised oh you know yeah well

632
00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:48,150
whatever whatever yeah whatever so

633
00:29:54,410 --> 00:29:52,170
anyway I you know just that fact itself

634
00:29:57,380 --> 00:29:54,420
but I'll tell you the thing that I

635
00:30:00,830 --> 00:29:57,390
always point out is when you talk about

636
00:30:03,140 --> 00:30:00,840
moon landing conspiracies there is a

637
00:30:06,460 --> 00:30:03,150
sizable portion of people around the

638
00:30:09,050 --> 00:30:06,470
world that believe it was a hoax or

639
00:30:11,330 --> 00:30:09,060
either if they don't believe it they're

640
00:30:14,300 --> 00:30:11,340
very suspicious that we landed there in

641
00:30:16,610 --> 00:30:14,310
the United States the polls I've seen is

642
00:30:20,170 --> 00:30:16,620
that summer around nine percent of the

643
00:30:25,130 --> 00:30:20,180
population thinks that it's a hoax

644
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:25,140
there's another 10 / maybe fifteen

645
00:30:29,330 --> 00:30:27,210
percent or so that are very skeptical

646
00:30:31,130 --> 00:30:29,340
about you know they can't say that it's

647
00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:31,140
a hoax but they don't believe we may

648
00:30:37,340 --> 00:30:33,810
have really done it but there and and by

649
00:30:42,350 --> 00:30:37,350
the way one of the astronaut trainees a

650
00:30:44,810 --> 00:30:42,360
guy named Brian O'Leary was in the

651
00:30:48,170 --> 00:30:44,820
fourth group of astronauts he he later

652
00:30:49,940 --> 00:30:48,180
left the program and he he contended

653
00:30:54,020 --> 00:30:49,950
that you know he was pretty sure that we

654
00:30:56,450 --> 00:30:54,030
faked it and also a former President

655
00:30:59,510 --> 00:30:56,460
Bill Clinton in his memoirs said when he

656
00:31:02,270 --> 00:30:59,520
was a young man he bought the story that

657
00:31:05,210 --> 00:31:02,280
we flew to the moon and landed there but

658
00:31:08,870 --> 00:31:05,220
after he became pretty as a wise wiser

659
00:31:12,350 --> 00:31:08,880
older man as he became president and saw

660
00:31:14,210 --> 00:31:12,360
how the government would work he was not

661
00:31:16,460 --> 00:31:14,220
sure at all that we landed that it was

662
00:31:19,220 --> 00:31:16,470
maybe hopes so do you think this is

663
00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:19,230
people looking back at the technology

664
00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:20,730
and saying no that couldn't have worked

665
00:31:25,940 --> 00:31:22,410
or do you think its people having their

666
00:31:30,830 --> 00:31:25,950
genuine mistrust of government I think a

667
00:31:32,750 --> 00:31:30,840
lot that is it and also one of the

668
00:31:35,750 --> 00:31:32,760
things you mentioned is that it's such a

669
00:31:38,780 --> 00:31:35,760
hard thing to do it might be have been

670
00:31:40,730 --> 00:31:38,790
easier to fake it well my contention is

671
00:31:42,350 --> 00:31:40,740
going back to the words of President

672
00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:42,360
Kennedy says we're going to the moon

673
00:31:45,470 --> 00:31:44,610
that because it's easy but because it's

674
00:31:49,100 --> 00:31:45,480
hard

675
00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:49,110
and I think that's um that's kind of the

676
00:31:56,780 --> 00:31:53,130
fallacy there I I i have my own personal

677
00:31:59,990 --> 00:31:56,790
thought about the how the moon landing

678
00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:00,000
hoax got started you want to hear my

679
00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:03,210
yeah yeah sure but also to add to it is

680
00:32:08,750 --> 00:32:06,450
the fact that we've never been back well

681
00:32:11,450 --> 00:32:08,760
that's you know we're talking about

682
00:32:13,190 --> 00:32:11,460
budgets and money availability that's

683
00:32:15,770 --> 00:32:13,200
one of the big reasons why we haven't

684
00:32:18,500 --> 00:32:15,780
been back well what your personal theory

685
00:32:20,419 --> 00:32:18,510
on how the hoax got going gay ok so here

686
00:32:24,289 --> 00:32:20,429
I am I'm in Mission Control Center I

687
00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:24,299
watched the landing uh I hear the voice

688
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:28,770
loops and everything and uh during the

689
00:32:34,549 --> 00:32:32,010
landing I was responding I was might my

690
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:34,559
job was to solve a problem that the

691
00:32:39,860 --> 00:32:37,010
lunar module was overweight and

692
00:32:43,010 --> 00:32:39,870
underperforming and I did analysis

693
00:32:46,909 --> 00:32:43,020
doesn't know that not correct we have

694
00:32:48,950 --> 00:32:46,919
plenty of performance so we I was

695
00:32:51,860 --> 00:32:48,960
particularly interested in the descent

696
00:32:57,169 --> 00:32:51,870
of the lunar stage on to the lunar

697
00:33:00,770 --> 00:32:57,179
module on civil lunar surface now but um

698
00:33:03,770 --> 00:33:00,780
buzz and Neil were were in the module

699
00:33:06,230 --> 00:33:03,780
and Neil Armstrong was the pilot he had

700
00:33:08,750 --> 00:33:06,240
the controls and Buzz was basically

701
00:33:11,500 --> 00:33:08,760
calling off numbers and altitude ins

702
00:33:15,230 --> 00:33:11,510
beaten so forth when he got to the

703
00:33:18,020 --> 00:33:15,240
prescribed landing site he saw boulders

704
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:18,030
there that were pretty large and he

705
00:33:23,180 --> 00:33:20,730
described him in real time as saying hey

706
00:33:24,860 --> 00:33:23,190
there's boulders as big as well swaggins

707
00:33:27,919 --> 00:33:24,870
I'm going to have to lie on further down

708
00:33:30,980 --> 00:33:27,929
rage which he did but it takes more fuel

709
00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:30,990
to land going out there and the low

710
00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:33,450
level sensor came on and they gave him a

711
00:33:40,580 --> 00:33:36,090
call you got 60 seconds of fuel

712
00:33:43,010 --> 00:33:40,590
remaining well to me as an observer it

713
00:33:48,110 --> 00:33:43,020
seemed like that came on too early by

714
00:33:52,159 --> 00:33:48,120
maybe 30 seconds so after it landed and

715
00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:52,169
he landed successfully uh I went back to

716
00:33:57,350 --> 00:33:54,450
the office got my team together we said

717
00:33:59,420 --> 00:33:57,360
you know I you know I said I got this

718
00:34:02,810 --> 00:33:59,430
feeling it just came on too early

719
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:02,820
well we we kind of kicked it around and

720
00:34:06,230 --> 00:34:04,410
talked to some of the experts and

721
00:34:09,500 --> 00:34:06,240
everything we kind of felt like Mel was

722
00:34:11,210 --> 00:34:09,510
maybe a dispersion of some type but lo

723
00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:11,220
and behold the same thing happened on

724
00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:14,930
Apollo 12 and the culprit was not

725
00:34:23,420 --> 00:34:19,050
anything that was obvious until tests

726
00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:23,430
were run on the tanks in a simulation of

727
00:34:30,860 --> 00:34:26,450
zero gravity and they realized that that

728
00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:30,870
baffles in the tank didn't keep the fuel

729
00:34:37,060 --> 00:34:33,450
from sloshing around it was accentuated

730
00:34:40,220 --> 00:34:37,070
by the one-sixth gravity and

731
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:40,230
consequently the the sloshing of the

732
00:34:44,780 --> 00:34:42,930
tanks uncovered the low level sensor I'm

733
00:34:48,620 --> 00:34:44,790
sure you've seen people have experienced

734
00:34:50,720 --> 00:34:48,630
this in their cars when the buzzer goes

735
00:34:52,220 --> 00:34:50,730
off or whatever the warning you're out

736
00:34:55,940 --> 00:34:52,230
of your getting close to getting out of

737
00:35:00,620 --> 00:34:55,950
gas so my thought is if a conspiracy

738
00:35:02,870 --> 00:35:00,630
happened and it was all simulated all

739
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:02,880
the data that we were getting back since

740
00:35:08,900 --> 00:35:05,610
we were an in on the conspiracy they

741
00:35:11,900 --> 00:35:08,910
stimulated something that really took us

742
00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:11,910
several missions to figure out so they

743
00:35:18,020 --> 00:35:14,490
not only fooled us they also employed

744
00:35:22,220 --> 00:35:18,030
the world's best psychics to say I first

745
00:35:24,110 --> 00:35:22,230
be fuel slashing that these guys are not

746
00:35:27,590 --> 00:35:24,120
aware of that's going to make the low

747
00:35:30,620 --> 00:35:27,600
level light come on early so this also

748
00:35:32,720 --> 00:35:30,630
means that the famous story of Armstrong

749
00:35:34,970 --> 00:35:32,730
almost running out of fuel is incorrect

750
00:35:38,450 --> 00:35:34,980
he had 30 seconds more than they thought

751
00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:38,460
he had exactly exactly but it was

752
00:35:43,250 --> 00:35:41,130
something that we had to correct it did

753
00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:43,260
happen on Apollo 11 and 12 the other

754
00:35:51,290 --> 00:35:46,170
thing to go along with the hoax theory

755
00:35:53,050 --> 00:35:51,300
is the next day back in the office a

756
00:35:55,580 --> 00:35:53,060
couple of the guys that worked for me

757
00:35:58,370 --> 00:35:55,590
went over to the press center now

758
00:36:02,480 --> 00:35:58,380
imagine this we got this big auditorium

759
00:36:06,700 --> 00:36:02,490
it is crammed with reporters from the

760
00:36:09,930 --> 00:36:06,710
television radio print media we have a

761
00:36:14,250 --> 00:36:09,940
famous luminaries in the

762
00:36:18,059 --> 00:36:14,260
in the journalism world Norman Mailer

763
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:18,069
the famous author he was there so they

764
00:36:23,069 --> 00:36:19,690
go over there and they come back to the

765
00:36:25,710 --> 00:36:23,079
office and they said your people think

766
00:36:28,559 --> 00:36:25,720
that this was all done in Hollywood in

767
00:36:32,370 --> 00:36:28,569
that this crappy video that we saw last

768
00:36:36,240 --> 00:36:32,380
night I was done in Halloween Senate

769
00:36:37,950 --> 00:36:36,250
that it's all been faked and I said what

770
00:36:43,980 --> 00:36:37,960
do you mean by my people and they said

771
00:36:48,059 --> 00:36:43,990
the Italian press for my people but

772
00:36:52,530 --> 00:36:48,069
anyway and then when I realized it you

773
00:36:56,700 --> 00:36:52,540
know that crappy video slow scan black

774
00:36:59,520 --> 00:36:56,710
and white lower low resolution I mean

775
00:37:01,770 --> 00:36:59,530
when you see it you can't even make out

776
00:37:05,990 --> 00:37:01,780
what the hell it is and this was real

777
00:37:08,819 --> 00:37:06,000
time video and by the way Maynard

778
00:37:11,790 --> 00:37:08,829
interesting factor we almost didn't take

779
00:37:14,550 --> 00:37:11,800
that real-time video camera on the lunar

780
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:14,560
module with us well because it was the

781
00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:17,410
whites concerns there was a weight

782
00:37:22,260 --> 00:37:19,210
concern of course I solve the weight

783
00:37:24,930 --> 00:37:22,270
concern but even with the weight concern

784
00:37:30,270 --> 00:37:24,940
when you put a piece of equipment like a

785
00:37:32,010 --> 00:37:30,280
video camera on on the spacecraft then

786
00:37:34,410 --> 00:37:32,020
you've got to go through all kinds of

787
00:37:36,270 --> 00:37:34,420
training hours and right procedures on

788
00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:36,280
how do you hook the thing up I mean you

789
00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:37,690
just can't have a piece of equipment

790
00:37:43,050 --> 00:37:39,490
that they've never seen before never

791
00:37:45,329 --> 00:37:43,060
pointed and so forth and the people that

792
00:37:48,150 --> 00:37:45,339
want to do not fly it that it's just a

793
00:37:50,190 --> 00:37:48,160
big hassle it doesn't enhance them the

794
00:37:53,339 --> 00:37:50,200
mission it doesn't there's no mission

795
00:37:58,260 --> 00:37:53,349
objectives to say needed broadcast

796
00:38:01,470 --> 00:37:58,270
real-time back to earth and yet it was

797
00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:01,480
recommended that it be left off my

798
00:38:07,050 --> 00:38:04,210
boss's boss Chris Kraft who is the

799
00:38:10,710 --> 00:38:07,060
flight director in charge of flight

800
00:38:13,829 --> 00:38:10,720
operations uh he said I can't believe

801
00:38:17,720 --> 00:38:13,839
what I'm hearing why would we leave it

802
00:38:21,870 --> 00:38:17,730
off because it's like having a camera a

803
00:38:23,460 --> 00:38:21,880
TV camera or movie film camera on the

804
00:38:27,290 --> 00:38:23,470
beach when

805
00:38:29,820 --> 00:38:27,300
a step foot in the world new world and

806
00:38:31,589 --> 00:38:29,830
the still photos from the hasselblad a

807
00:38:33,990 --> 00:38:31,599
fascinating it is weird that some of the

808
00:38:35,730 --> 00:38:34,000
cross-hatching appears above the images

809
00:38:38,670 --> 00:38:35,740
or behind the images sometimes that I

810
00:38:42,210 --> 00:38:38,680
think that's an odd one well that is a

811
00:38:45,270 --> 00:38:42,220
that is very explainable in photography

812
00:38:51,570 --> 00:38:45,280
and it has to do a dynamic range of the

813
00:38:54,599 --> 00:38:51,580
photos but uh and and I've seen this

814
00:38:59,310 --> 00:38:54,609
proven where you take a very bright

815
00:39:01,230 --> 00:38:59,320
object and it almost looks like the the

816
00:39:04,620 --> 00:39:01,240
cross-hatching I mean it's been

817
00:39:09,660 --> 00:39:04,630
simulated in its and of course those

818
00:39:12,599 --> 00:39:09,670
those 70 millimeter format hasselblad

819
00:39:15,650 --> 00:39:12,609
our cameras were you know top dollar

820
00:39:17,910 --> 00:39:15,660
top-of-the-line beautiful camera sack

821
00:39:21,450 --> 00:39:17,920
beautiful cameras and they brought back

822
00:39:24,089 --> 00:39:21,460
beautiful images but uh you know there's

823
00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:24,099
there's a whole mystique build up about

824
00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:27,490
what the glial illiteracy is on the rock

825
00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:31,770
and it's at the hair if somebody's

826
00:39:38,370 --> 00:39:35,650
eyebrow hair that got into the film

827
00:39:40,020 --> 00:39:38,380
processing malo how do you feel about

828
00:39:41,940 --> 00:39:40,030
this is someone who worked on the space

829
00:39:43,380 --> 00:39:41,950
program where will you mention that

830
00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:43,390
never once in a while someone comes up

831
00:39:47,670 --> 00:39:45,130
to you and and pushes the hoax

832
00:39:51,980 --> 00:39:47,680
conspiracy theory at the hoax theory to

833
00:39:55,470 --> 00:39:51,990
you how do you feel well um you know the

834
00:39:57,540 --> 00:39:55,480
invasion of Normandy was I'm sure for

835
00:40:02,609 --> 00:39:57,550
the guys that were involved in that was

836
00:40:06,870 --> 00:40:02,619
a big emotional thing in their life that

837
00:40:09,420 --> 00:40:06,880
probably uh they're like really define

838
00:40:12,870 --> 00:40:09,430
their life now if I were to go around

839
00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:12,880
and say you know it turned out that the

840
00:40:17,940 --> 00:40:16,330
Brits and the Americans made a deal with

841
00:40:19,530 --> 00:40:17,950
the Germans that we were just going to

842
00:40:22,380 --> 00:40:19,540
pretend and we're going to set up a

843
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:22,390
fruit film crew and nobody was going to

844
00:40:27,599 --> 00:40:24,010
get hurt and we're just going to trade

845
00:40:29,940 --> 00:40:27,609
them more gold blocks or you know

846
00:40:34,859 --> 00:40:29,950
whatever and then you came out with

847
00:40:37,290 --> 00:40:34,869
Normandy invasion a hoax I mean people

848
00:40:40,290 --> 00:40:37,300
would be coming at you with

849
00:40:44,130 --> 00:40:40,300
with the hatchet if you were to propose

850
00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:44,140
that and that's the feeling that do I

851
00:40:49,530 --> 00:40:46,330
mean many people involved at NASA would

852
00:40:52,350 --> 00:40:49,540
have had yeah yeah in it it's you know

853
00:40:55,740 --> 00:40:52,360
you you know really smart people said

854
00:40:59,220 --> 00:40:55,750
boy I saw this program on TV that dead

855
00:41:03,000 --> 00:40:59,230
moon landing was all was all fake they

856
00:41:05,550 --> 00:41:03,010
got proof a photography proof and

857
00:41:07,650 --> 00:41:05,560
everything and but at Monica City this

858
00:41:09,150 --> 00:41:07,660
also brings us into your your journey

859
00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:09,160
through skepticism and critical thinking

860
00:41:13,430 --> 00:41:10,690
and how you're trying to spread it

861
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:13,440
around your area what is your view on on

862
00:41:17,310 --> 00:41:15,850
getting people to look look to the

863
00:41:20,390 --> 00:41:17,320
evidence basically when something

864
00:41:24,710 --> 00:41:20,400
happens well I had the great opportunity

865
00:41:27,630 --> 00:41:24,720
last year to give the commencement they

866
00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:27,640
addressed to the graduating high school

867
00:41:37,290 --> 00:41:33,970
in my community and I I I gave them I

868
00:41:40,140 --> 00:41:37,300
put a flavor of the space program in and

869
00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:40,150
I the whole thing was about critical

870
00:41:47,700 --> 00:41:42,850
thinking and I give an example of how we

871
00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:47,710
flew to the moon on Apollo 8 and we were

872
00:41:52,890 --> 00:41:50,490
getting pushed off course and we used

873
00:41:55,140 --> 00:41:52,900
detective work work and look for

874
00:41:57,270 --> 00:41:55,150
evidence and we realize that when we

875
00:42:02,040 --> 00:41:57,280
flush the toilet it threw us off course

876
00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:02,050
because it gave us a slight push and I

877
00:42:07,260 --> 00:42:04,570
ended that by saying you know it took

878
00:42:09,990 --> 00:42:07,270
critical thinking and looking for

879
00:42:12,870 --> 00:42:10,000
evidence to find that and I and I

880
00:42:15,990 --> 00:42:12,880
contrasted it by saying what we didn't

881
00:42:17,880 --> 00:42:16,000
do is we didn't call in a tarot card

882
00:42:20,010 --> 00:42:17,890
reader to figure out where we were going

883
00:42:23,460 --> 00:42:20,020
to end up at the end of this mission or

884
00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:23,470
we didn't call the psychic hotline or we

885
00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:25,810
didn't even do something as simple as

886
00:42:33,870 --> 00:42:31,690
looking up the the astrology charts for

887
00:42:36,570 --> 00:42:33,880
the three crew members that were on and

888
00:42:41,100 --> 00:42:36,580
and try to figure out what was going on

889
00:42:44,220 --> 00:42:41,110
because critical thinking is is the

890
00:42:48,840 --> 00:42:44,230
opposite of magical thing and what I

891
00:42:50,730 --> 00:42:48,850
described was magical and it's give that

892
00:42:55,350 --> 00:42:50,740
contrast and I went through other

893
00:42:57,750 --> 00:42:55,360
things about medicines and how the

894
00:43:01,070 --> 00:42:57,760
father of our country died and so forth

895
00:43:03,930 --> 00:43:01,080
and so on to give examples of how

896
00:43:06,859 --> 00:43:03,940
critical thinking can affect what's

897
00:43:10,500 --> 00:43:06,869
going on and like myself you also enjoy

898
00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:10,510
non skeptical podcasts as well and you

899
00:43:17,160 --> 00:43:12,450
like a whole range of things don't you I

900
00:43:20,850 --> 00:43:17,170
do i I don't I don't spend my whole day

901
00:43:23,010 --> 00:43:20,860
listening to podcast but I i live on 75

902
00:43:24,990 --> 00:43:23,020
acres of land so i got a lot of work to

903
00:43:30,420 --> 00:43:25,000
do you could love you you must have a

904
00:43:33,270 --> 00:43:30,430
hell of a ride on mower well I do have a

905
00:43:34,980 --> 00:43:33,280
variety I have a what's called a garden

906
00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:34,990
tractor which is like a big blowing

907
00:43:38,730 --> 00:43:36,970
machine it's got a cup holder you've got

908
00:43:42,300 --> 00:43:38,740
a cup holder on your garden tractor I

909
00:43:44,460 --> 00:43:42,310
know it's a too bumpy ride I mean I'm

910
00:43:46,830 --> 00:43:44,470
running over what kind of wild while

911
00:43:49,650 --> 00:43:46,840
field so forth and I just keep it trim

912
00:43:51,240 --> 00:43:49,660
done around the house look and is the

913
00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:51,250
one image like a lot of people that have

914
00:43:54,930 --> 00:43:53,290
been involved in dramatic programs like

915
00:43:56,490 --> 00:43:54,940
you've been they've got the one photo

916
00:43:58,830 --> 00:43:56,500
that is somewhere in the house that

917
00:44:00,570 --> 00:43:58,840
reminds them of their entire time what

918
00:44:03,720 --> 00:44:00,580
is your photo that reminds you of your

919
00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:03,730
entire time in the space program mercury

920
00:44:12,090 --> 00:44:07,570
flight 10 ma 10 lifting off I've got a

921
00:44:15,050 --> 00:44:12,100
black and white photo of that and I also

922
00:44:20,220 --> 00:44:15,060
have I guess my prized possession is

923
00:44:23,640 --> 00:44:20,230
during the kind of the last part of the

924
00:44:26,670 --> 00:44:23,650
space program after we had flown Mercury

925
00:44:31,020 --> 00:44:26,680
Gemini Apollo and we're getting into

926
00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:31,030
shuttle I was given an award certificate

927
00:44:38,849 --> 00:44:35,650
in on it was a flag a small fabric flag

928
00:44:43,550 --> 00:44:38,859
that was flown to the moon on apollo 17

929
00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:43,560
in that hanging in my in my living room

930
00:44:47,609 --> 00:44:45,970
that sounds like quite an honor you uh

931
00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:47,619
well I you wouldn't want the lucky

932
00:44:54,570 --> 00:44:49,210
people to get any bit of moon rock where

933
00:44:58,230 --> 00:44:54,580
you know and that is kind of a bone of

934
00:45:00,720 --> 00:44:58,240
contention about now here we go let me

935
00:45:04,500 --> 00:45:00,730
good luck someone stole your bit of moon

936
00:45:08,670 --> 00:45:04,510
rock someone no no no I I was

937
00:45:10,710 --> 00:45:08,680
I was first to go into the facility I

938
00:45:14,550 --> 00:45:10,720
knew a friend that worked over there and

939
00:45:18,780 --> 00:45:14,560
he snuck me into into the lunar

940
00:45:22,260 --> 00:45:18,790
receiving laboratory and I got a glance

941
00:45:23,940 --> 00:45:22,270
at the that but he he was very nervous

942
00:45:27,060 --> 00:45:23,950
about it I wasn't supposed to be in

943
00:45:29,610 --> 00:45:27,070
there so he ran me right out but in the

944
00:45:32,340 --> 00:45:29,620
lobby of one of her buildings there at

945
00:45:34,410 --> 00:45:32,350
Johnson Space Center in Houston is a

946
00:45:38,730 --> 00:45:34,420
pretty good-sized moon rock I'm display

947
00:45:42,420 --> 00:45:38,740
behind a plexiglass cube and its really

948
00:45:46,980 --> 00:45:42,430
edit just fascinating me and you know

949
00:45:49,290 --> 00:45:46,990
feel that I contributed to that yeah I I

950
00:45:51,690 --> 00:45:49,300
can't understand that that feeling but

951
00:45:53,730 --> 00:45:51,700
Marlo Cassetti I I could just imagine

952
00:45:58,590 --> 00:45:53,740
you walk past that rock and you go yet I

953
00:46:00,090 --> 00:45:58,600
help get that bit here yeah and when you

954
00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:00,100
look at the advances that have been made

955
00:46:04,950 --> 00:46:02,530
and what you could do now with the

956
00:46:06,870 --> 00:46:04,960
technology now do you ever imagine what

957
00:46:10,590 --> 00:46:06,880
could have been done then if we had the

958
00:46:14,820 --> 00:46:10,600
computing power we have now oh it would

959
00:46:16,590 --> 00:46:14,830
be I mean we had a division of 400

960
00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:16,600
people that kind of probably could be

961
00:46:24,090 --> 00:46:20,650
done by 40 people with the beauty power

962
00:46:27,780 --> 00:46:24,100
uh you know it's very difficult and i

963
00:46:32,220 --> 00:46:27,790
gave a talk at a engineering scholarship

964
00:46:34,050 --> 00:46:32,230
foundation banquet and there were a lot

965
00:46:39,660 --> 00:46:34,060
of young people there and i tried to

966
00:46:43,050 --> 00:46:39,670
give him a flavor of how crude computing

967
00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:43,060
was in that era of the Apollo program uh

968
00:46:48,390 --> 00:46:46,450
when you have a big computer in the only

969
00:46:52,890 --> 00:46:48,400
way you can talk to that computer as you

970
00:46:55,980 --> 00:46:52,900
is you take a box of IBM cards with

971
00:46:59,610 --> 00:46:55,990
punched information on it you submit it

972
00:47:02,430 --> 00:46:59,620
and you pick a pick up the print out the

973
00:47:05,610 --> 00:47:02,440
next morning because it's been waiting

974
00:47:08,850 --> 00:47:05,620
with a hundred other job you don't get a

975
00:47:11,880 --> 00:47:08,860
lot done you do a lot of waiting and a

976
00:47:14,430 --> 00:47:11,890
lot of busy work but you don't have

977
00:47:18,599 --> 00:47:14,440
instant access that you have on let's

978
00:47:23,039 --> 00:47:18,609
say a pc nowadays advanced calculations

979
00:47:27,329 --> 00:47:23,049
I know took 20 minutes of time on a big

980
00:47:32,910 --> 00:47:27,339
machine uh it's a fraction of a second

981
00:47:34,589 --> 00:47:32,920
on a desktop computer mallika City thank

982
00:47:37,229 --> 00:47:34,599
you for telling us about your time with

983
00:47:39,059 --> 00:47:37,239
Mercury Gemini and the Apollo program is

984
00:47:40,799 --> 00:47:39,069
you have a website or somewhere people

985
00:47:44,309 --> 00:47:40,809
can contact or find out more about what

986
00:47:46,109 --> 00:47:44,319
you've got up to no actually I don't you

987
00:47:47,970 --> 00:47:46,119
were you really should even if just a

988
00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:47,980
couple of your photos and a bit of a

989
00:47:52,589 --> 00:47:49,450
blog or something people have loved to

990
00:47:55,499 --> 00:47:52,599
read that well maybe I'll do that now

991
00:47:57,410 --> 00:47:55,509
let you know if I ever get to it when

992
00:48:01,200 --> 00:47:57,420
you've got 70 acres to mow for a start

993
00:48:04,049 --> 00:48:01,210
yeah well actually I I've been involved

994
00:48:07,109 --> 00:48:04,059
in radio controlled model airplanes and

995
00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:07,119
our club has a site but I'm you're not

996
00:48:11,370 --> 00:48:08,890
going to find out much about me on that

997
00:48:12,749 --> 00:48:11,380
site well lookie might as well give us

998
00:48:14,900 --> 00:48:12,759
that so we can see what what other

999
00:48:22,680 --> 00:48:14,910
aeronautics you've been doing lately

1000
00:48:27,450 --> 00:48:22,690
okay you could look on FB our DC dot

1001
00:48:36,029 --> 00:48:27,460
blog spot.com that website again for the

1002
00:48:37,589 --> 00:48:36,039
listeners FB RC v dot blogspot com look

1003
00:48:39,470 --> 00:48:37,599
ma no it's been a great pleasure talking

1004
00:48:41,910 --> 00:48:39,480
to you today about critical thinking

1005
00:48:43,529 --> 00:48:41,920
skepticism and about your experience in

1006
00:48:45,089 --> 00:48:43,539
aeronautics and NASA and I'd love to

1007
00:48:46,979 --> 00:48:45,099
chat to again because we didn't even get

1008
00:48:49,400 --> 00:48:46,989
to the fact that you helped design the

1009
00:48:53,819 --> 00:48:49,410
tail for the hoorka Harrier Jump Jet

1010
00:48:57,059 --> 00:48:53,829
well it was um I I was redesigned the

1011
00:48:59,099 --> 00:48:57,069
horizontal tail because it had a ability

1012
00:49:00,630 --> 00:48:59,109
problem see and that's the kind of

1013
00:49:03,210 --> 00:49:00,640
people that listen to our show people

1014
00:49:04,829 --> 00:49:03,220
mom are low we'll have a chat about that

1015
00:49:06,420 --> 00:49:04,839
another day thank you very much i will

1016
00:49:09,239 --> 00:49:06,430
be in contact it's been a pleasure to

1017
00:49:22,530 --> 00:49:09,249
speak to you sir if the pleasure is all

1018
00:49:27,790 --> 00:49:24,880
hello this is brian dunning from the

1019
00:49:30,250 --> 00:49:27,800
sceptile cast announcing a new book

1020
00:49:33,190 --> 00:49:30,260
capturing 50 of the very best stories

1021
00:49:34,599 --> 00:49:33,200
thus kept I'd podcast as explored are

1022
00:49:36,370 --> 00:49:34,609
you better able to make good decisions

1023
00:49:37,870 --> 00:49:36,380
about your life when you know the

1024
00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:37,880
science underlying the way the world

1025
00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:40,490
really works are you excited to learn

1026
00:49:45,549 --> 00:49:43,490
new facts new history and gain improved

1027
00:49:49,299 --> 00:49:45,559
insight and context for what we

1028
00:49:52,089 --> 00:49:49,309
experience this book is for you skep

1029
00:49:54,400 --> 00:49:52,099
tied five massacres monsters and

1030
00:49:56,559 --> 00:49:54,410
miracles is a collection of fifty of the

1031
00:49:59,260 --> 00:49:56,569
best episodes of the sceptile podcast

1032
00:50:01,329 --> 00:49:59,270
adapted for print he will be fully

1033
00:50:03,549 --> 00:50:01,339
indexed and referenced but most of all

1034
00:50:05,559 --> 00:50:03,559
each of its 50 chapters will be a

1035
00:50:07,960 --> 00:50:05,569
fascinating peek behind the urban

1036
00:50:10,420 --> 00:50:07,970
legends we've all heard to see what's

1037
00:50:12,579 --> 00:50:10,430
truly going on more than a hundred and

1038
00:50:15,220 --> 00:50:12,589
eighty thousand people enjoy the podcast

1039
00:50:17,140 --> 00:50:15,230
each week but many more missing out in

1040
00:50:19,780 --> 00:50:17,150
part because they read books instead of

1041
00:50:22,420 --> 00:50:19,790
listening to the internet this project

1042
00:50:24,670 --> 00:50:22,430
is being proud funded on Kickstarter the

1043
00:50:27,250 --> 00:50:24,680
web's leading crowdfunding resource a

1044
00:50:29,140 --> 00:50:27,260
pledge of $25 will get you an

1045
00:50:30,940 --> 00:50:29,150
autographed copy of the book and a

1046
00:50:33,120 --> 00:50:30,950
pledge of only ten dollars will get you

1047
00:50:36,460 --> 00:50:33,130
ebooks to read on your portable device

1048
00:50:38,200 --> 00:50:36,470
also one lucky supporter will have the

1049
00:50:40,809 --> 00:50:38,210
chance to write the foreword for the

1050
00:50:43,390 --> 00:50:40,819
book will this be your opportunity to

1051
00:50:45,760 --> 00:50:43,400
get into worldwide print come to

1052
00:50:48,609 --> 00:50:45,770
sceptile calm and click on the project

1053
00:50:51,130 --> 00:50:48,619
front and center on the web page you can

1054
00:50:55,120 --> 00:50:51,140
also find it at kickstarter com just

1055
00:50:57,970 --> 00:50:55,130
search for sceptile massacres monsters

1056
00:51:00,849 --> 00:50:57,980
and miracles coming soon to all who make

1057
00:51:06,930 --> 00:51:00,859
a modest pledge I'm Brian Dunning from

1058
00:51:12,310 --> 00:51:09,520
are you aware that in the last 20 years

1059
00:51:14,320 --> 00:51:12,320
there's not had a section on until

1060
00:51:15,970 --> 00:51:14,330
design or creationism that's correct

1061
00:51:17,170 --> 00:51:15,980
what you are discussing now is whether

1062
00:51:18,940 --> 00:51:17,180
you will teach the denigration of

1063
00:51:20,859 --> 00:51:18,950
evolution which is a longtime

1064
00:51:22,660 --> 00:51:20,869
creationist strategy to promote

1065
00:51:24,010 --> 00:51:22,670
creationism through the back door have

1066
00:51:26,620 --> 00:51:24,020
there ever been any evidence of

1067
00:51:28,570 --> 00:51:26,630
evolutionary fraud of course should we

1068
00:51:30,790 --> 00:51:28,580
be allowed to teach that as his ambles

1069
00:51:33,010 --> 00:51:30,800
of bad science certainly just like you

1070
00:51:41,470 --> 00:51:33,020
can teach examples of political

1071
00:51:43,720 --> 00:51:41,480
chicanery thank you in the battle for

1072
00:51:46,690 --> 00:51:43,730
rationality in America especially in

1073
00:51:48,640 --> 00:51:46,700
American education my own subject of

1074
00:51:51,700 --> 00:51:48,650
evolutionary biology is in the front

1075
00:51:53,560 --> 00:51:51,710
line trench and dr. Scott is the

1076
00:51:55,900 --> 00:51:53,570
commanding officer the master strategist

1077
00:51:58,210 --> 00:51:55,910
on our side the general in charge of

1078
00:52:00,490 --> 00:51:58,220
intelligence and strategic planning as

1079
00:52:03,820 --> 00:52:00,500
well as the field officer in charge of

1080
00:52:06,460 --> 00:52:03,830
tactics and battle order yet she does it

1081
00:52:09,310 --> 00:52:06,470
all with the most unmilitary grace and

1082
00:52:10,870 --> 00:52:09,320
charm it's impossible to meet Jeanne

1083
00:52:13,570 --> 00:52:10,880
without loving her whether you agree

1084
00:52:15,310 --> 00:52:13,580
with her or not intelligent design makes

1085
00:52:16,540 --> 00:52:15,320
the claim that there are things out

1086
00:52:19,060 --> 00:52:16,550
there in nature that are just

1087
00:52:21,540 --> 00:52:19,070
categorically unexplainable by natural

1088
00:52:24,130 --> 00:52:21,550
cause therefore they were created

1089
00:52:25,780 --> 00:52:24,140
designed by an intelligent agent and

1090
00:52:28,000 --> 00:52:25,790
nobody's fool the intelligent agent de

1091
00:52:30,190 --> 00:52:28,010
Scott now how can you call that a

1092
00:52:32,079 --> 00:52:30,200
science when your basic organizing

1093
00:52:34,300 --> 00:52:32,089
principle is we can't explain this

1094
00:52:36,140 --> 00:52:34,310
through natural cause what science does

1095
00:52:38,660 --> 00:52:36,150
is explain things through natural

1096
00:52:40,370 --> 00:52:38,670
and the whole idea of intelligent design

1097
00:52:42,380 --> 00:52:40,380
just completely flies in the face of

1098
00:52:44,599 --> 00:52:42,390
that I heard that a Scott was being

1099
00:52:46,339 --> 00:52:44,609
inducted into the IRG I was very excited

1100
00:52:48,410 --> 00:52:46,349
I mean all the times that you've saved

1101
00:52:50,299 --> 00:52:48,420
the enterprise and worked with courage

1102
00:52:54,470 --> 00:52:50,309
bones and it's just it's really a

1103
00:52:59,960 --> 00:52:58,310
Oh Jeannie Scott all even better oh my

1104
00:53:01,099 --> 00:52:59,970
gosh actually a real hero of mine I've

1105
00:53:02,840 --> 00:53:01,109
been in the number of conventions

1106
00:53:05,570 --> 00:53:02,850
Regina's talking it's always been such a

1107
00:53:07,910 --> 00:53:05,580
pleasure so congratulations but it's

1108
00:53:11,359 --> 00:53:07,920
been my great fortune and pleasure to

1109
00:53:13,430 --> 00:53:11,369
learn Eugenie Scott for I guess about 10

1110
00:53:16,370 --> 00:53:13,440
years now and I'm delighted that she's

1111
00:53:19,760 --> 00:53:16,380
been rewarded and given such recognition

1112
00:53:22,700 --> 00:53:19,770
or who work congratulations Eugenia I

1113
00:53:24,290 --> 00:53:22,710
can't think of anyone that deserves to

1114
00:53:26,240 --> 00:53:24,300
be inducted into a hollow mater more

1115
00:53:27,950 --> 00:53:26,250
than you I just want to say thank you

1116
00:53:31,280 --> 00:53:27,960
thank you for all of the work that

1117
00:53:34,070 --> 00:53:31,290
you've done Eugenie's God the main

1118
00:53:36,710 --> 00:53:34,080
conduit and I'm a controversal I'm going

1119
00:53:40,849 --> 00:53:36,720
to do that congratulations and it's

1120
00:53:45,680 --> 00:53:40,859
well-deserved Eugenie's five is just a

1121
00:53:47,359 --> 00:53:45,690
wonderful perfect person she is email

1122
00:53:51,070 --> 00:53:47,369
she's well known source I think she's

1123
00:53:55,370 --> 00:53:51,080
still an unsung hero because she is my

1124
00:53:59,420 --> 00:53:55,380
idol as a right way of being a good

1125
00:54:02,090 --> 00:53:59,430
skeptic and he could educate I know that

1126
00:54:04,280 --> 00:54:02,100
if ncsc hadn't been around blow these 20

1127
00:54:07,670 --> 00:54:04,290
years or so the situation would be a lot

1128
00:54:10,000 --> 00:54:07,680
worse because frankly we are effective

1129
00:54:12,790 --> 00:54:10,010
the creationists we'll talk again

1130
00:54:14,950 --> 00:54:12,800
this is the best job I've ever had no

1131
00:54:47,870 --> 00:54:14,960
question about it I got the best job in

1132
00:54:51,689 --> 00:54:49,739
have you heard the one about how the

1133
00:54:53,219 --> 00:54:51,699
Illuminati in conjunction with the US

1134
00:54:54,989 --> 00:54:53,229
government are hiding the existence of

1135
00:54:57,269 --> 00:54:54,999
aliens in order to ensure the supply of

1136
00:54:58,739 --> 00:54:57,279
helium is kept low although the CIA the

1137
00:55:00,479 --> 00:54:58,749
militant wing of the Freemasons are

1138
00:55:01,920 --> 00:55:00,489
working with the elders of zion to take

1139
00:55:04,439 --> 00:55:01,930
control of the population of the world

1140
00:55:06,209 --> 00:55:04,449
through fluoridated chemtrails canberra

1141
00:55:07,709 --> 00:55:06,219
skeptics incorporated on behalf of the

1142
00:55:09,390 --> 00:55:07,719
shadow government will be massing an

1143
00:55:11,939 --> 00:55:09,400
array of dark forces for the australian

1144
00:55:13,709 --> 00:55:11,949
skeptics national convention 2013 this

1145
00:55:15,299 --> 00:55:13,719
convention has conspired to coincide

1146
00:55:17,640 --> 00:55:15,309
with the 50th anniversary of the

1147
00:55:19,289 --> 00:55:17,650
assassination of John F Kennedy possibly

1148
00:55:21,329 --> 00:55:19,299
the most famous conspiracy theory of all

1149
00:55:23,189 --> 00:55:21,339
time if you've ever wanted to learn

1150
00:55:25,109 --> 00:55:23,199
about the truth behind the death of JFK

1151
00:55:27,029 --> 00:55:25,119
what makes for a good conspiracy theory

1152
00:55:29,009 --> 00:55:27,039
and why they are so prevalent Canberra

1153
00:55:30,749 --> 00:55:29,019
skeptics invites you to attend that is

1154
00:55:33,779 --> 00:55:30,759
of course should you choose to accept it

1155
00:55:36,359 --> 00:55:33,789
come to national skeptics convention org

1156
00:55:48,900 --> 00:55:36,369
and just remember they will be watching

1157
00:55:53,740 --> 00:55:51,430
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1158
00:55:56,110 --> 00:55:53,750
zone now the skeptic so next week we'll

1159
00:55:58,450 --> 00:55:56,120
be coming to you from Melbourne Victoria

1160
00:56:00,400 --> 00:55:58,460
I'll be flying down there very soon

1161
00:56:02,680 --> 00:56:00,410
spending some time with those great

1162
00:56:05,440 --> 00:56:02,690
people down in Victoria getting ready

1163
00:56:07,120 --> 00:56:05,450
for my talk and well I'll be getting

1164
00:56:09,640 --> 00:56:07,130
some interviews and insights from the

1165
00:56:12,340 --> 00:56:09,650
people down in Melbourne in Victoria

1166
00:56:14,650 --> 00:56:12,350
can't wait to see you all there until

1167
00:56:20,710 --> 00:56:14,660
then this is Richard Saunders signing

1168
00:56:23,980 --> 00:56:20,720
off from Sydney Australia you've been

1169
00:56:28,510 --> 00:56:23,990
listening to the skeptic zone visit our

1170
00:56:31,000 --> 00:56:28,520
website at www skeptics on TV for